Saturday, June 2, 2007

The Timing of the Seals

This post be a place for you to discuss the timing of the opening of the seven sealed scroll according to the E.R. model.

The scriptural evidence for believing that the first five seals have already been opened is extensive and convincing, in my view. Here are a few reasons:
a. I believe in Rev. 4-5, John was given a vision of the first century ascension of Christ to the right hand of God. This place the opening of the scroll with the seven seals in the same time frame as that event, not 2000+ years into the future.

b. The first five seals very closely resemble the "birth pains" that Jesus said would take place before the end would come.

c. I believe the four horses and riders are spiritual beings who have influence in the natural world, and that this began in the first century and continues to the present. They are progressive and current up to the present time. John was simply shown, by Jesus opening the seals on the scroll, what would have to take place from the first century until the present on the earth before the wrath of God would be unleashed after the opening of the seventh seal.
What scriptural evidence is there that the four horses and riders of Rev. 6 are spiritual beings that were unleashed in the first century?

1. Job 2:1 Again the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also arrived among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:6 So the LORD said to Satan, "All right, he [Job] is in your power; only preserve his life."
Job 2:7 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD, and he afflicted Job with a malignant ulcer from the sole of his feet to the top of his head.

Satan and the sons of God (b'nai elohim) requested of God that he could persecute Job. God allowed it. Granted this isn't all humanity, but an example.

2. Zec 6:5 The messenger replied, “These are the four spirits of heaven that have been presenting themselves [yatsab] before the Lord of all the earth.
Zec 6:6 The chariot with the black horses is going to the north country and the white ones are going after them, but the spotted ones are going to the south country.
Zec 6:7 All these strong ones are scattering; they have sought permission to go and walk about [halak] over the earth.” The Lord had said, “Go! Walk about over the earth!” So they are doing so.

In this passage, the "strong ones that scatter" were granted permission by God to do what they requested to do. Notice verse 5 calls the riders of these verses the "four spirits"? Spirits, not men. And four of them.

3. Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.

Believers and nonbelievers struggle against the spiritual realm.

4. Eph 2:2 in which you formerly lived according to this world's present path, according to the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience,

The sons of disobedience (unbelievers) are energized (influenced) by an unseen spirit being, what the KJV calls the prince of the power of the air.

What I'm proposing in these first four seals of Rev. 6 is that evil spirit beings are influencing/energizing humans to deceive/kill/oppress, etc., and human beings are carrying out the deception/murder/oppression. This is what was going on in Zech. chapter 6...four spirits allowed by God to go to different parts of the earth and carry out whatever it is that they wanted to do. God granted their request.

What I believe scripture does clearly teach in Zech 6:5-7 (see previous post) is that there were four spirits that God allowed to go forth into the earth and do...whatever it is they did. They were also riding colored horses, not the exact same colors to the ones in Rev. 6, but very close.

The point is that there is scripture to support the belief that the white horse rider, and the other three horse riders, are spiritual beings who influence humanity to do bad things to each other. But there isn't any scriptural evidence that these riders are actual human beings. Clearly, there is sound scriptural evidence that the AC will be a human being in the future, but it does not follow that the white horse rider is that human being, especially when Zech 6:5-7 provides a much better alternative understanding.

In Christ,


Theoferrum said...

Shalom David,

I must state my disagreement with your opening statement and after the quote I will list my reasons.

"I believe in Rev. 4-5, John was given a vision of the first century ascension of Christ to the right hand of God."

The point is that Moses, John the Baptist, Y'shua, Paul and the Apostle John himself - in his epistle written after the Revelation - that no man has ever seen God.


That means that every appearance of Y'hova in the Old and New Testaments are in fact appearances of Y'shua himself. It is my opinion, and I spell it out on my site, that the Old Testament appearances of Y'shua are not pre-incarnate as the Theologians would have it, but they are post incarnate appearances of Y'shua whom had been caught up to heaven and back in time just before he started his ministy in which he was "glorified with You with the glory I had before the foundation of the world."

The individual in Revelation 4 and 12 who is compared to Y'shua is actually the Davidic Leader of the end days who is called Prince David by Jeremiah, Hosea and Ezekial.

Anonymous said...

It may be possible that even though no man has seen God - John was said to have been "In the Spirit" on the day of his vision of the throne room.

Could it be that John was allowed to see God because he was made to be holy in the sight of Him?

I also wonder why the slain lamb is pictured with 7 horns and eyes. This seems to be a literal appearance of Jesus, yet why does John not see a man with nail prints in His hands? Why a beast symbollic of a slain lamb?